Optimal Dialysis = High natural hemoglobin?

Gus wrote here:
http://www.homedialysis.org/boards/viewtopic.php?t=455&start=18
A question about my low hemoglobin but rather than chnage the topic of the Expo thread I wanted to start this new thread.

I can relate to that feeling, its quite hectic and it just come to the point of not beeing able to continue with activities as expected. I would simply run out of breath in just a short distance or by just try to stand as long as I can! But is this the first time this ever happened to you> Never used EPO before? You know, the early years of my dialysis I felt better and more energy than today, it just seems to me that the body on dialysis can take so much until you start noticing what long term dialysis does to one… dang, Bill, I think you should take easy…don’t push it too hard. Try to relax espcially in these moments that your in [/quote]

No Gus I have taken EPO since starting dialysis. While incenter my dose was about 5-6000 units per treatment or 15,000- 18,000 units of EPO per week. When I started high dose home hemo in 2001 I saw my dose diminish until I was taking just 3,000 units once a week and then I stopped needing EPO at all. I have written that I see a high natural hemoglobin as an unambiguous sign of optimal dialysis.

In fact I based my reckoning of my target HDP on what it takes to achieve a high natural hemoglobin. In other words I decide how long /frequent I need to dialyze based on my not needing EPO. I determined that if my HDP was 100 I would not need EPO. I have enjoyed a high natural hemoglobin all year – in 2006 my hemoglobin ranged between 13.8 and 14.4 without any EPO. Even when I switched to three day a week dialysis in Mexico for 19 days last Christmas my hemoglobin only went from 14.2 to 13.8.

My August Hemoglobin crash coincided with my two week trip using the NxStage. To me the impact on my hemoglobin is a worrying sign that 3 hours of dialysis on the NxStage is not equivalent to three hours of dialysis on a standard machine.

I will be borrowing a System one on Thursday to use for the next 12 days – three treatments in Baltimore and six or seven in Orlando. Tonight I plan on doing a hemoglobin test and then I will do my monthly labs when I return from Florida. I am very interested in seeing the impact of using the System One and 25 liters of dialysate per treatment.

I know many people are excited about the System One but I, after talking to many people – particularly some of the good folk at NxStage – still question the dose delivered using so little dialysate. I am interested that I am hearing that some people are using a PureFlow bag per treatment i.e. using 60 liters of dialysate, but that raises another concern since the System One dialysate has such a low K.

I’ll journal my Baltimore/Florida trip here on HDC (with video).

I can relate to that feeling, its quite hectic and it just come to the point of not beeing able to continue with activities as expected. I would simply run out of breath in just a short distance or by just try to stand as long as I can! But is this the first time this ever happened to you> Never used EPO before? You know, the early years of my dialysis I felt better and more energy than today, it just seems to me that the body on dialysis can take so much until you start noticing what long term dialysis does to one… dang, Bill, I think you should take easy…don’t push it too hard. Try to relax espcially in these moments that your in [/quote]

No Gus I have taken EPO since starting dialysis. While incenter my dose was about 5-6000 units per treatment or 15,000- 18,000 units of EPO per week. When I started high dose home hemo in 2001 I saw my dose diminish until I was taking just 3,000 units once a week and then I stopped needing EPO at all. I have written that I see a high natural hemoglobin as an unambiguous sign of optimal dialysis.

Same here, while in-center I would get 10000 - 12000u weekly,…
currently, am at 5000u weekly…HG is at normal level…

In fact I based my reckoning of my target HDP on what it takes to achieve a high natural hemoglobin. In other words I decide how long /frequent I need to dialyze based on my not needing EPO. I determined that if my HDP was 100 I would not need EPO. I have enjoyed a high natural hemoglobin all year – in 2006 my hemoglobin ranged between 13.8 and 14.4 without any EPO. Even when I switched to three day a week dialysis in Mexico for 19 days last Christmas my hemoglobin only went from 14.2 to 13.8.

But you still have your own kidneys inside you? You must still have those glands that produce some erythropoietin cuz mine were taken out completely…

My August Hemoglobin crash coincided with my two week trip using the NxStage. To me the impact on my hemoglobin is a worrying sign that 3 hours of dialysis on the NxStage is not equivalent to three hours of dialysis on a standard machine.

The two week trial you had with NxStage was a vigorous trip for you in that you had to move your supplies around…that can also affect the life of your blood cells…whilst the other trips like Mexico you just walked in the clinic, so I know there’s other factors that has affected your HG…

I will be borrowing a System one on Thursday to use for the next 12 days – three treatments in Baltimore and six or seven in Orlando. Tonight I plan on doing a hemoglobin test and then I will do my monthly labs when I return from Florida. I am very interested in seeing the impact of using the System One and 25 liters of dialysate per treatment.

That would be interesting…

I know many people are excited about the System One but I, after talking to many people – particularly some of the good folk at NxStage – still question the dose delivered using so little dialysate. I am interested that I am hearing that some people are using a PureFlow bag per treatment i.e. using 60 liters of dialysate, but that raises another concern since the System One dialysate has such a low K.

Isn’t it a mystery eh?..unless, they’re trying to kill us? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’ll journal my Baltimore/Florida trip here on HDC (with video).

That would be good…stay strong Bill! :slight_smile:

[/quote]

But you still have your own kidneys inside you? You must still have those glands that produce some erythropoietin cuz mine were taken out completely… [/quote]

I have three withered kidneys – my two native kidneys and one from my brother. I assume that together they produce some EPO but remember two things are going on with dialyzor anemia. On the one hand it could be a situation where, like you, there is no natural EPO being produced. But there is also the situation where there is natural EPO production but the life span of the blood cells is shortened because the circulatory system is polluted with waste.

In this second situation – which I think is my situation – my EPO dose correlates to the longevity of my blood cells. When my blood cell’s life span is short due to inadequate dialysis (when the circulatory system is polluted) then I need more EPO just to get to the Medicare target of 12-13. When my blood cells are living longer because my circulatory system is cleaner then it would seem that I can achieve a normal hemoglobin 13-15 without EPO. In fact Medicare guidelines prohibit using EPO when the hemoglobin is above 13 – the only way to achieve a hemoglobin above 13 is to have some natural EPO production and healthy, long lived blood cells.

This fits with your experience Gus because when your blood is cleaner you need less EPO.

The two week trial you had with NxStage was a vigorous trip for you in that you had to move your supplies around…that can also affect the life of your blood cells…whilst the other trips like Mexico you just walked in the clinic, so I know there’s other factors that has affected your HG… [/quote]

I do not think this is true . Exercise does not negatively impact hemoglobin. The idea that resting is in the long term (or short term) interest of dialyzors is wrong, as is the idea that lifting boxes would decrease ones hemoglobin. If anything, physical activity is a piece of a range of things you and I can do to stay healthy and engaged with life.

I often hear “you should slow down”, “I don’t know how you do it” etc. I find these comments unhelpful. The idea that there is a limit to the amount of activity a dialyzor can accomplish is only because people’s expectations are based on three day a week incenter dialysis.

Occam’s razor “lex parsimoniae” paraphrased as “All things being equal, the simplest solution (answer) tends to be the best one.” suggests to me that my hemoglobin crashed because the life span of my blood cells decreased.

Isn’t it a mystery eh?..unless, they’re trying to kill us? :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

This is a real and serious concern. If people are running 8 hours on a 1K bath I would be very worried about a low potassium. Nocturnal dialysis on a standard machine often use 3k baths because of the danger of low potassium, and calcium for that matter.

Hi Folks

I can only say WOW. You are a hell of guy, Bill. I tip my Hat to you Sir.

Meaning no dis respect to all the other great people on this site. Everybody on this site who is on dialysis at home or is a caregiver, should be proud of working so hard.

bobeleanor :oops:

Regarding dialysis and exercise, I came across the following:

Quote by stauffenberg in the ihatedialysis.com thread.
I can never understand why they recommend exercise for dialysis patients. Normal hemoglobin for a male is 140, and even in the 120 range, an otherwise healthy male would never be instructed by his doctor to exercise, since such a severe degree of anemia is considered a contraindication for exercise. But with renal patients, given that it is unsafe to use sufficient EPO to bring the Hgb level to normal, so that most patients languish in severe anemia forever, in the 90 to 120 range, why is exercise recommended?! Dialysis patients have the further problem that muscle mass tends to be lost without functioning kidneys to normalize protein metabolism, and exercise raises creatinine levels by muscle breakdown, so again, they should be told not to exercise, since it is toxic for them! In the occasional patient with some degree of fluid overload, exercise can also carry a higher than normal risk for heart failure.

I suspect that the reason exercise is recommended is psycho-social: the patients and their doctors both need to pretend that there is something that can actively and usefully be done to improve things in the otherwise hopeless trap of the dialysis world, so they shut their eyes to the facts and pretend that exercise will help make things all right again.

I have read a number of times where others have said exercise is healthful for those on dialysis. So, are the above quoted comments accurate or partly so?

Regarding Nxstage, did you ever see an improvement in your appetite, Bill, when you added another bag of dialysate to your txs? And did you ever try going to a 200 Qd with increased Qb to see what it would do?

You mention you want to try 25 liters next. How long will that make your txs?

Your concern about NxStage’s use of 1K, especially for nocturnal length txs. is something we had not thought of. Surely, NxStage has thought of it and it must be safe or it wouldn’t be used. Either that or maybe they don’t use a 1K for nocturnal txs. We are still trying to understand the technical/operational differences between NxStage and conventional machines. I read where on a conventional machine patients said they became deathly ill when put on a 1K. But on a NxStage , or perhaps it is the short daily txs., they are totally unaffected by a 1K. There are certainly differences that must be understood as to how each type machine operates.

One thing is very good- it is of great benefit to be able to try different things to see what various type machines are capable of in order to optimize the tx.

But you still have your own kidneys inside you? You must still have those glands that produce some erythropoietin cuz mine were taken out completely… [/quote]

I have three withered kidneys – my two native kidneys and one from my brother. I assume that together they produce some EPO but remember two things are going on with dialyzor anemia. On the one hand it could be a situation where, like you, there is no natural EPO being produced. But there is also the situation where there is natural EPO production but the life span of the blood cells is shortened because the circulatory system is polluted with waste.

Anything is possible, certainly.

In this second situation – which I think is my situation – my EPO dose correlates to the longevity of my blood cells. When my blood cell’s life span is short due to inadequate dialysis (when the circulatory system is polluted) then I need more EPO just to get to the Medicare target of 12-13. When my blood cells are living longer because my circulatory system is cleaner then it would seem that I can achieve a normal hemoglobin 13-15 without EPO. In fact Medicare guidelines prohibit using EPO when the hemoglobin is above 13 – the only way to achieve a hemoglobin above 13 is to have some natural EPO production and healthy, long lived blood cells.

I noticed that when EPOGEN is spread out evenly it keeps the HG from fluctuating suddenly…for example, currently, I take 5000u of EPOGEN per week but I spread it out as 2500u 2x week and that has kept it steady…

This fits with your experience Gus because when your blood is cleaner you need less EPO.

Right, there’s also more to it…nutrition, eating well has alot to do with it…EPOGEN won’t work correctly if nutrition is not balanced…specificly iron…

The two week trial you had with NxStage was a vigorous trip for you in that you had to move your supplies around…that can also affect the life of your blood cells…whilst the other trips like Mexico you just walked in the clinic, so I know there’s other factors that has affected your HG… [/quote]

I do not think this is true . Exercise does not negatively impact hemoglobin. The idea that resting is in the long term (or short term) interest of dialyzors is wrong, as is the idea that lifting boxes would decrease ones hemoglobin. If anything, physical activity is a piece of a range of things you and I can do to stay healthy and engaged with life.

I often hear “you should slow down”, “I don’t know how you do it” etc. I find these comments unhelpful. The idea that there is a limit to the amount of activity a dialyzor can accomplish is only because people’s expectations are based on three day a week incenter dialysis.

You took it the wrong way, having low HG and feeling quite tired can also bring you un-wanted results…unless you want it to happen first and then somebody else will say “Take it easy dude!” relax! :stuck_out_tongue: …you should get that HG back to normal before getting into high gear! :wink:

Occam’s razor “lex parsimoniae” paraphrased as “All things being equal, the simplest solution (answer) tends to be the best one.” suggests to me that my hemoglobin crashed because the life span of my blood cells decreased.

Well, we’re not the first but it happens to all of us on dialysis…some days s u c k and some days are great!

Isn’t it a mystery eh?..unless, they’re trying to kill us? :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

This is a real and serious concern. If people are running 8 hours on a 1K bath I would be very worried about a low potassium. Nocturnal dialysis on a standard machine often use 3k baths because of the danger of low potassium, and calcium for that matter.

I do know this, there’s not enough data to clarify the impact on dialy-short dialysis…the studies that were done in the past were incomplete, so here we’re again! …on the other hand, there’s been people on NxStage System One over 4 years now and I ask why the heck are they still alive!!..I mean science has it there and I am sure the scientists over at NxStage know what they’re doing and it just leaves us mumbling for answers…the good thing we do know and see is that daily-short really has shown an effect on many of us patients and I think regardless what machine you use kdiney disease brings all kinds of symptoms but as patients what we clamor for is the perfect machine but I guess we haven’t met our perfect machine yet so we just try to fit what we think will work out… :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Gus wrote:

I noticed that when EPOGEN is spread out evenly it keeps the HG from fluctuating suddenly…for example, currently, I take 5000u of EPOGEN per week but I spread it out as 2500u 2x week and that has kept it steady…

This is something I think I asked about before, but don’t recall anyone had an answer at the time. I have noticed that some home patients said they get their epo once a week. But in-center it is given in 3 doses a week. Seems there is a reason why they give it in three doses instead of one.

Hi Heather, you might want to read this article
“GUIDELINES FOR ANEMIA OF CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE”

http://www.kidney.org/professionals/kdoqi/guidelines_updates/doqiupan_iv.html

When the NKF DOQI anemia guidelines were published in 2001, there was only Epogen. Today EPO is available as Epogen and Aranesp. How often someone gets EPO also depends on whether the person is getting Epogen or Aranesp. Aranesp is a longer acting formulation of EPO and can be given once a week. You can read about Aranesp on these websites:

http://www.aranesp.com

http://www.aranesp.com/professional/prescribing_information.jsp (prescribing information)

Thanks Gus. I see DOQI recommended dividing the doses. Does anyone know, have more recent guidelines been published since 2000’?

Beth I have heard of Aranesp, but was mainly wondering what the best way is to give epo in home setting. Also, the 2000’ guidelines advised giving epo sub q, but have read subsequent articles disputing sub q over IV so not sure what the current opinion is.

Heather, I use SubQ here at home and I think the whole opinion has to do with the needles themselves. Most people are against additional needle sticks …but the 1cc needles I use for EPOGEN here at home are so tiny that they barely can be felt… :slight_smile: Also, with Medicare not paying more than 3x a week treatments there’s also a good reason for clinics to manage EPOGEN more efficiently…

Until my registration goes through I am using the user name as Country Girl.
Marty.

I just wanted to note Bill had said nocturnal patients have a 3K bath.
Dad has been on nocturnal going on 7 years and our bath is 2K. Pat’s husband will soon be doing nocturnal with the NxStage and we will see if the 1K bath has an affect.

LSB,
Are you doing nocturnal on NxStage with a 1K…any problems?

Dear Country Girl,
We’re sorry for the delay in activating your registration. With our new bulletin boards we’re not yet up-to-speed on how to do some of these tasks and both Dori and I are at a meeting. We’ll get you activated the first of next week.

[quote=Beth Witten MSW ACSW;10846]Dear Country Girl,
We’re sorry for the delay in activating your registration. With our new bulletin boards we’re not yet up-to-speed on how to do some of these tasks and both Dori and I are at a meeting. We’ll get you activated the first of next week.[/quote]

Hello, hello… :slight_smile: I can activate her right away, just give me moderator status and every legit person awaiting activation I can handle swiftly, am nearly always available over the net. With my other net projects it just keeps me close here…

Getting back to 2000’ DOQI guidelines recommending dividing epo dose up 3 ways- this was in re to in-center txs. So, how would epo administration differ when it comes to daily home txs? Also, weren’t there new guidelines in 2006’. From a past thread, seems home patients are getting epo both sub q and IV and some get just 1x a week or less while others are divinding the does. So, is this a unit by unit protocol or do we have Medicare or state law deciding how its given? How is it given most effectively and economically in the case of daily home txs?

I was searching the web for info on the best way to give epo in home programs when i came across this series of posts:

"Kidney News : Taxpayers Take it On the Chin For Amgen!

Reply
Recommend Message 1 of 3 in Discussion

From: Dialysis Joe (Original Message) Sent: 10/27/2006 9:59 PM

Editorial on The Administration of Epoetin Alpha By Joe Atkins, RN, MBA, CNN, CHT

There can be no doubt that Epoetin Alpha, a drug produced by Amgen, Inc., has made life easier for dialysis patients, as well as dialysis providers. But, should any single drug consume 20% of Medicare’s dialysis budget?

Few people realize that, out of the $10 billion dollars that Medicare pays for dialysis treatments for 300,000 dialysis patients, $1.75 to $2 billion dollars of that money goes for a single drug, which is Epoetin Alpha. Epoetin Alpha is a drug that replaces the blood building hormone normally produced in healthy kidneys. Without this hormone, patients with kidney failure cannot build new red blood cells and, therefore, become severely anemic, requiring regular blood transfusions.

What concerns me is that Medicare and commercial insurance companies could reap savings in the hundreds of millions of dollars, each year, if Epoetin Alpha were administered subcutaneously. It’s unfortunate that, presently, most dialysis providers have chosen to administer this expensive drug, intravenously, which is the least effective and most costly way to administer the drug.

In 2002, the Department of Internal Medicine, University Hospital, in Uppsala, Sweden carried out a study where they switched from subcutaneous administration of Epoetin Alpha, to intravenous. What they discovered was that the change to IV administration required them to increase the dose of the drug by 15% in order to maintain the same effect that the patients had achieved, with their subcutaneous administration. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16118109&dopt=Abstract

What the Swedes discovered concerning the economics and efficacy of the subcutaneous administration of Epoetin Alpha is old news. The entire ESRD provider community around the world is aware of studies that have proven this fact. So, the question is, why are we still giving this expensive drug, IV?

The sad answer to the question, above is profit. Profit for the providers and profit for Amgen, Inc. When you are talking about billions of dollars, a 15% savings is pretty significant. And, in my opinion, this savings could be significantly higher than 15%.

So, why isn’t Medicare doing anything to encourage providers to administer the drug subcutaneously, as opposed to intravenously? They seem to have no problem mandating the Fistula First program in order to reduce the numbers of central venouls lines being used by dialysis patients. What could be holding them back?

Since 1999, I’ve personally written and called the Inspector General of the United States, and the IG of Health and Human Services over a period of five years, with no action taken on this very issue. I wrote Senator Mike DeWine, who is a member of the Subcommittee on Antitrust Competition Policy and Consumer Rights, as well as Senator George Voinovich, Congressman Mike Turner, as well as President George W. Bush, explaining how intravenous administration of this expensive drug is causing a burden to taxpayers. All I received, from any of them were form letters, some of which didn’t even relate to the subject at hand.

It’s clear to me that our good polititians from Ohio really don’t care how much waste and corruption is costing tax payers. Medicare Part D, which is a no bid, pay full retail hand out to the pharmaceutical industry is a real clear indication of how our polititians in Ohio and in the Whitehouse have prostituted themselves out for campaign contributions. They’re whores and there’s just no civil way to put an decent spin on it. They’ve sold out the American taxpayers.

Well, Mike DeWine, George Voinovich, Tony Hall/Mike Turner (two consecutive Representatives from the same Ohio district, one Democrat and the other a Republican), George W. Bush and the OIG can’t say that they weren’t told about the abuses going on with EPO administration. They were all told, repeatedly, over and over, again, since 1999. Their choice was to sit on their hands, do nothing, and let the pharmaceutical industry support their campaigns, at taxpayers expense.

This has become an ugly little secret in the ESRD provider industry, which really has never been a secret, at all. Everyone in the industry has winked at this evil and turned a blind eye. Every person who has sit on their hands and said nothing is guilty. Just as guilty as those making billions of dollars at taxpayers’ expense.

The saddest thing about the abuse of Epoetin Alpha is that SC vs IV administration is only the tip of the iceburg. Over time, more and more is going to be revealed, which will show how the industry has quietly worked together to maximize the use of Epoetin Alpha, in every possible way, and all for profit. The conflict of interest among those setting the standards for EPO guidelines and administration is ridiculously obvious and is a blight on the entire ESRD industry.

Maybe it’s time to reach inside ourselves and rediscover why we got into this business in the first place. At one time, it was about helping people get better. Now, it’s just about the bottom line.

We can all blame “The System” for causing us to do the things we do, or, we can take personal responsibility for our actions and make the right changes in the way we provide care, and do business. A great place to start would be switching every patient, all 300,000 plus ESRD patients, to subcutaneous administration of Epoetin Alpha.

Just think about this, $2 billion dollars is two thousand million dollars. Even at a modest 15% savings from sucutaneous administration of Epoetin Alpha, this results in a savings of $300 million dollars. And, that’s just for Medicare. That doesn’t count the money being paid out by private insurance providers, who, by the way, are really getting hosed. No one in the insurance industry has put those numbers together, but you can be assured that it’s considerable. Most insurance providers are paying six to ten times what Medicare pays for each dose of Epoetin Alpha. I can hear the presidents of Aetna, Anthem and United Healthcare choking on their champain and caviar, right now.

Joe Atkins, Managing Editor
Dialysis & Transplant City"

Kidney News : Taxpayers Take it On the Chin For Amgen!
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Recommend Message 2 of 3 in Discussion

From: Dialysis Joe in response to Message 1 Sent: 10/28/2006 10:42 AM
My commentary on Amgen at RenalWeb.com
http://www.renalweb.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/000557.html

"Kidney News : Taxpayers Take it On the Chin For Amgen!

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Recommend Message 3 of 3 in Discussion

From: Dialysis Joe in response to Message 1 Sent: 11/4/2006 10:14 AM
Why is Vitamin B12 and Folic Acid being ignored as vital components required for erythropoesis?

Every first or second year medical student knows that there are a list of ingredients required to help the body reproduce more red blood cells, which are the following:

1). An adequate level of albumin and Total Protein. Rationale: You cannot synthesize new RBC’s without protein.
2). Erythropoietin, a hormone produced in the kidneys that stimulates the bone marrow to produce new red blood cells. Rationale: Stimulates bone marrow to produce new RBC’s.
3). Adequate iron stores in the body. Rationale: Provides the iron required to produce hemoglobin.
4). Adequate supplies of vitamin B12 and Folic Acid. Rationale: According to any basic medical student’s physiology text, B12 and Folic acid are required to synthesize new cells, especially red blood cells.
5). Last, a component, which will not be covered in this article, is Carnitine.

So far, the Dialysis Outcomes Quality Initiatives, an ongoing project funded by Amgen and carried out through the National Kidney Foundation, for anemia management, has focused, primarily, on IV iron administration, as well as EPO administration, in order to achieve adequate hemoglobins and hematocrits for patients on dialysis. Albumin levels of 3.5 have been set as a DOQI standard for nutrition, but this has not been tied, specifically as a vital component to anemia management. As well, the focus on the vital components of erythropoiesis, Folic Acid and Vitamin B12, has been, generally, ignored (the exception to this is the research section of the Department of Nephrology at the VA Medical Center in Dayton, Ohio).

Today, most dialysis patients in the United States are being dialyzed with High Flux dialysis. The significance of this is the fact that High Flux dialysis is removing a great deal of Folic Acid and Vitamin B12 from the patients’ bodies and, with the exception of a daily oral vitamin, nothing else is being done to boost these vital components of RBC production, which are water soluable and easily removed from the body with High Flux hemodialysis.

If Medicare (CMS and Congress) would have enough intelligence to legislate adequate testing for and administration of Folic Acid and Vitamin B12, usage of EPO and IV iron might be significantly reduced. Unfortunately, under CMS’s present reimbursement rules and regulations, there is little profit in this plan for the drug industry, or the provider industry. Therefore, these two vital components of Erythropoiesis are being ignored.

What I’m telling you in this article is not new, it’s simple information that is taught in nutrition classes to student nurses and to medical students in the first few years of their training. I find it sad that advanced thinkers in the ESRD community, which consist of experienced nephrologist, nephrology nurses and ESRD reseachers of the Drug industry, have chosen to ignor these simple nutritional concepts of RBC physiology, that they received so early in their initial training. It’s as though the drug industry has given ESRD professional amnesia concerning the most basic concepts of Erythropoiesis.

The bottom line is that you can’t build a house without the tools and supplies required for the project. To date, our anemia management program is operating without attention, or concern, for all the tools and supplies required for the efficient production of red blood cells. Maybe it’s time to go back to the basics of our education and review Guyton’s Textbook of Medical Physiology (a basic medical school textbook, which has been used for many decades), which clearly tells us that protein, folic acid, vitamin B12, in addition to EPO and iron, are required for Erythropoiesis. This trip back to our educational roots could teach us how to significantly reduce our use of EPO, as well as IV iron, which would also go a long way to saving taxpayers and insurance companies hundreds of millions of dollars.

Joe Atkins, RN, MBA, CNN, CHT
Managing Editor
Dialysis & Transplant City"

[QUOTE=Heather1;11001]From: Dialysis Joe (Original Message) Sent: 10/27/2006 9:59 PM
Editorial on The Administration of Epoetin Alpha By Joe Atkins, RN, MBA, CNN, CHT
It’s unfortunate that, presently, most dialysis providers have chosen to administer this expensive drug, intravenously, which is the least effective and most costly way to administer the drug.[/QUOTE]
I can’t imagine why this is surprising, when 92% of US patients are on in-center hemo, which is the least effective and most costly way to dialyze…

From what I’ve heard, IV administration of EPO is just easier in the center setting than subQ, especially when so many patients are resistant to the idea of one more needle. Yes, it’s a small needle, but if you don’t like needles, it’s still one more when you already have an IV line in and it’s someone else’s money you’d be saving at the cost of an extra stick to yourself.