POT smoking on Dialysis

Well Its better than drinking i guess and it was once said it helped with animia and cramping . Queen Elizibith used it for a number of years for cramps I also have a fealling its better then xanex and clonipin due you think its bad ?

First of all, drinking isn’t that bad for dialysis patients, except for the fluid restrictions. As long as you take binders when you drink, it should be fine. Secondly, pot smoking can prevent you from getting a transplant. Natural herbs could make you reject a transplant, so no transplant center will accept you if you smoke pot.
And thirdly, I’d rather take Xanex than smoke pot, jsut so I could get a transplant!! lol

weel i guess you can say your wrong alcohol kills dialysis patients aspessally if they drink beer. I also can say xanex is alott worse since its pysically addicting. transplant centers will not take a drunk as that is probablly why they burned out there kidney in the first place. Pot is a herb that was provided to us from nature ther are benifits of smoking less anxioty ,anema ,cramping ,appitite and you dont KILL braincells unlike alcohol or sniffing glue. The old timers always think of the refer madness era it was all the goverment taking a fredom away from people who wish to feel better. I personally have seen people or drunks not live very long on h.d. I dont mean a shot or two at familly gaterings but alot. Alcohol affects so many organs in the body. Pot just doesnt maybe the lungs and a love handle or two. But you dont beat your wife or drive over small children on pot just mellow jello.

It’s my understanding that one of the criteria that most transplant programs have is that the candidate not be abusing alcohol, using any recreational drugs, including pot, or smoking cigarettes to get a transplant. They may require that someone who is using to be drug-free for a set period of time (I’ve heard 6 months) and often they contract with patients and require them to agree to submit to random drug testing to prove that they are not still using.

I think if something helps with nausia and has really no significant side effects then why not? In the Netherlands a lot of the dialyzors admit to smoking pot. The reason why it is not openly talked about here in the US is the hypocrasy of the State not because of any medical contraindication.

Like anything if it is a problem then it is a problem but there is no reason to think that smoking pot per se is a problem. The main reason pot can become a problem is if it interfears with life activities - and as always it is dangerous to mix drugs. For instance mixing pot and television is a bad idea.

The question of transplant centers concerning themselves with pot use is not related to whether I think pot is bad. Pot is neither good or bad, but clearly it is much healthier than booze or cigaretts.

I, like the Dutch, believe a victimless crime is an absurdity. People, especially people with chronic illnesses should be allowed to live their lives as best they can without being second guessed by a nany State.

I suspect with pot as with cigarettes it may be the potential damage to lungs that inhalants do and the associated risk of anesthesia if someone has compromised lungs that may be the reason for discouraging smoking anything.

So far as use of recreational drugs (including alcohol), I believe the concern among dialysis and transplant professionals is that someone “under the influence” might have impaired thinking, may pass out, and and thus may not take their medications or follow their treatment plan and may risk the donated organ. Plus some recreational drugs are known to damage kidney tissue. The Northwest Kidney Centers’ website has general information on drugs and effects on kidneys:

I’m not totally wrong. I was just telling you what I was told. My dialysis center told me that it was ok to drink here and there as long as you take binders when you do. As for Xanex, I’ve taken them many times and never got addicted. It’s the person’s fault if they get addicted. They should know better than to abuse them. Finally, I know that pot is a natural herb, but the transplant center I went to in 2005 said that herbs, including pot, can make you reject a new kidney. I’m not saying pot is bad; I’m just telling you what I was told. I used to smoke a lot until I was told that I wouldn’t be able to get a transplant if I kept it up. I’ve been clean for over a year now. I wish I was healthy so I could go back to it, but I will never be able to. That’s just life.

In a sense alcohol is way more deadly than smoking POT…BUT people also die from lung cancer for smoking POT…either way, you play with drugs you get burned. You will only enjoy the good short experiences short-time. Just kinda imagine that marijuana is legal everywhere, would it look nice to see all youngsters at school smoking it? Alcohol is legal and I know all of you have saw people placing it in their store carts and you all have even tried it…happiness ain’t it? Now what would happen if you have both alcohol and marijuana legalized? hehehe…any kinda drug can be addictive but there needs to be control, that’s why we have laws to limit the use of these drugs. If your using illegal drugs, you’ll never get away with it and as a patient it will affect you. Once you start sometimes its hard to stop it…


When I went in to the transplant center for a re-transplant work-up they had me sign a document agreeing to NOT drink alcohol. They told me that alcohol and the immune supression drugs do not mix and that you will damage your transplanted kidney. Being that I have to watch my fluid intake (not as much doing SDHD) I chose to drink fluids that quench rather than dehydrate. Perhaps POT might have a similar affect when using immune supression drugs. As always, moderation is the key - you don’t want your judgement impaired when you are on the machine.

Hi there well I do appricate all the feed back. I ve in h.d for a while and seen alott younger people seem to be affraid to ask these kind of questions when they know there Dr will say hell no. A young couple asked me one day if pot was bad for them after informing them that I was not a Dr or R.N just a tech I felt with experences in the past pot really help some and alcohol is much more harmful thinking this guy was still in college and taking beer bongs from the roof. I also find pot left by patients in Dialysis chairs all the time and other things much much more harmfull like crack. I havent seen that in a while. I once had a patient on H.d that could not eat due to nausia and vomiting he was really looking death in the mirror and his insurance would not help him with this life saving stomach deffibulator. He kind of looked like a old hippie so I just asked him if he used to smoke not advising him but just woundering he said he used to and his brother still smokes. I just kindly said maybe he should go see his brother that advise only. This was on a Friday by next tx he looked so much better he gained some weight and his wife told me hes eating thank god. Later that month it was obvious he was still alive to to the plant. He never told me straight out I think he was a little embaressed but he would give me thanks a the time for telling him to see his brother. I also wanted to say ibprofrin ADVIL type products in high dosses 800mg or higher have been known to cause kidney problems I have seen it first hand happen to quit a few people. I hope you all dont take this the wrong way this is a topic brought up alott when you in a center. I will tell you one thing in 6 months 2 crack users died and fast in a unit i was in they would get on the machine high and after h.d for about 1 hour the drugs would dialize off and severe withdraw would set in very scary. Wish hapeness to all and please if you see pot on the ballot for the kidney challenged or anyone in need rethink the matter and vote to leagalize a herb that could bring great benifit and lower drug companies prices in this drug market its out of control!!Hey Bill Peckman thanks for the possitive feed back Seattle is so laid back they even have a time in augest at the water fron t in Seattle were you can smoke and get pot educated Vancouver Canada has also leagalized it whats wrong with this country???

Duuuuudes, excellent convo. Pass the ding dongs, maholo. Peace and propensity, er, I mean prosperity. Later dudes, The Riverdude

There is an FDA approved cannabinoid drug containing THC, the ingredient in marijuana that helps with nausea, vomiting, and weight loss. Doctors can legally prescribe this drug for people that have nausea and vomiting due to chemotherapy for cancer who don’t respond to other treatments and for appetite loss in people with HIV/AIDS. The drug is called Marinol. It is a Schedule III drug. There is a patient assistance program that helps people who qualify get it.

Twelve states have legalized medical marijuana at this time - AK, CA, CO, HI, ME, MD, MT, NV, OR, RI, VT, WA. See http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3391 to read what the qualifying diagnoses to obtain and use marijuana without legal penalty. Outside of these 12 states, people who are caught buying or using marijuana face legal penalties and can risk loss of professional licenses and jobs as a result.

More employers are randomly drug testing employees for drug use.

The Americans with Disabilities Act allows employers to drug and alcohol test employees and potential employees with disabilities just as it would anyone else.

People on dialysis can have a problem with drug testing because the usual way someone is tested is with urine. If someone on dialysis doesn’t produce urine, this can create a problem. The government (Dept of Health & Human Services) has been piloting testing using hair, saliva, and sweat, but has not yet approved these for alternative drug testing for federal employees and contractors. Blood testing is not one of the approved alternate ways to test, probably because it is more invasive than the other ways. However, if you are asked to submit to drug testing and you don’t urinate, I’d certainly ask to have one of the alternate tests.

BETH ITS CACA its not the same people are always trying to pawn them of on eath other not only that its expensive not to mention a Dr would probally not prescribe it o well just another pill. This topic is really good but so far I cant see a reason that it should be illigal alcohol is like the devil for some its very sad. I also feel that Doctors love to give out pills without thinking of the future. On that note just woundering has anyone really done reserch other then clinical or fda type tests now on FoSrenol its kind of made me nevous since its primary ingredents is a metal compound (remember what happened with Aluminum binders well most dont since they have either died or have allzimers dementia

keep up the the

kt/v see ya

Flint pot vote raises awareness Sunday, March 04, 2007
MEDICAL MARIJUANA advocates are hailing – or is it inhaling? – a victory Feb. 27. By a 1,777-1,101 vote, Flint became the fifth Michigan city to approve legally puffing pot for health reasons. Use remains illegal under state andfederal law. Officials reminded Flint residents not to start loading up their hookah pipes – or face the consequences.

Other Michigan cities that have approved medical pot-use measures are Ann Arbor, Detroit, Ferndale and Traverse City. Lansing is the next target, says NORML, a pro-marijuana outfit, and the goal is to get a medical dope initiative on the statewide ballot.

Medical marijuana use is legal in 11 states. Pass the Cheetos.

Whether marijuana is safer or a more effective painkiller than, say, OxyContin is debatable, but some users think so. Cancer patients who have tried it say pot works best at inducing appetite. It has beneficial uses, and we’re sympathetic to those who use it legally.

The biggest fear coming from law enforcement circles is that legalized medical marijuana use could lead to additional abuse and wider recreational use. Yet the abuse of prescription drugs, the International Narcotics Control Board said last week, is about to exceed the use of “practically all illicit drugs with the exception of cannibis.” The board, an offshoot of the United Nations, said the number of Americans abusing prescription drugs nearly doubled between 1992 and 2003, to 15.1 million from 7.8 million people.

Marijuana’s link to the drug culture of the 1960s and ‘70s, the hippies, and its potential as a gateway to other more potent illicit drugs, has colored many Americans’ perception of “weed.” As Americans are inclined to relegate cigarette smokers to the streets for solid health reasons, recreational pot use is unwise.

Medical uses, however, are another matter. A free and compassionate society ought to understand common sense trumps perceptions of a drug that may be less dangerous than prescriptions. It’s time to take a deep breath – inhale – and place sick people ahead of ideology.

The Flint vote and the others before it indicate that more people realize marijuana, like other drugs used properly, is not always evil.

“Patients with end-stage renal disease on dialysis and those with
transplanted kidneys show mental ease, comfort, and lack of
significant graft-versus-host incompatibility reactions in my small series. “Diabetics report slightly lower and easier-to-control blood sugar levels, yet to be studied and explained.

The extent to which medical cannabis users discontinue or reduce
their use of pharmaceutical and over-the-counter drugs is a recurring theme in a recent survey of pro-cannabis (PC) California doctors. The drug-reduction phenomenon has obvious scientific implications.

Medicating with cannabis enables people to lay off stimulants as well as sedatives -suggesting that the herb’s active ingredients restore homeostasis to various bodily systems. (Lab studies confirm that cannabinoids normalize the tempo of many other neurotransmission systems.) The political implications are equally obvious. Legalizing herbal cannabis would devastate the pharmaceutical manufacturers and allied corporations in the chemicals, oil, “food,” and banking sectors. Put simply, the synthetic drug makers stand to lose half their sales if and when the American people get legal access to cannabis.

In the 10 years since Proposition 215 made it legal for California doctors to approve cannabis use by patients, the PC docs did not adopt a common intake questionnaire, and, with one exception, did not collect systematic data on which pharmaceutical drugs their patients had chosen to stop taking. However, the consistency with which the doctors describe this phenomenon has a force as impressive as any slickly presented “hard” data.

This summer I surveyed 19 PC doctors who, between them, had approved and monitored cannabis use by more than 140,000 patients. Herewith, some replies to a question about patients reporting reduced reliance on pharmaceuticals.

Frank Lucido, MD:

“Chronic pain patients report reduced use of opioids, NSAIDs, muscle relaxants, sleeping pills. Psychiatric and insomnia patients reduce use of tranquilizers, SSRI antidepressants, and sleeping pills. Neurologic patients reduce use of opioids, muscle relaxants, NSAIDS, triptans and other migraine headache remedies.”

Marian Fry, MD:

“Medications discontinued or reduced include Oxycontin, Norco,
Percoset, Vicodin, Flexerol, Soma, Valium, SSRI antidepressants, and blood-pressure medications Norvasic and Hydrochlorothiazide.
Approximately 1% of my patients report reduced reliance or
discontinuation of seizure medication by substituting Cannabis for Dilantin and remaining seizure free. Many of my Glaucoma patients no longer require their Timoptic drops and are able to maintain normal pressures with the use of Cannabis. Many of my patients who have lost hope in conventional pharmaceutical treatments report enhanced health, decreased pain, decrease depression and an overall sense of well being despite chronic illness.”

Helen Nunberg, MD is medical director of MediCann, a statewide chain of clinics through which 53,000 patients have received approvals. Nunberg reviewed records of 1,800 patients seen at nine clinics. “Prescription drug substitution is very significant,” she writes.

“51% of the 1,800 patients report using cannabis as a substitute for prescription medications; 48% report using cannabis to prevent prescription medication side effects; 67% report using cannabis to reduce dosage of prescription medication; 49% of patients using cannabis for chronic pain were previously prescribed an opioid (such as hydrocodone) by their personal physician.”

Philip Denney, MD:

“Cannabis allows significant decreased use or elimination of many
prescription medications, particularly narcotics. Patients usually report decreases of 50% or better.”

Tom O’Connell, MD:

“Vicodin and other opioids; lithium; Klonopin; various sleep aids; and the whole gamut of psychotropic medications from Prozac to Xanax. I don’t tell patients to stop taking anything, but I will suggest they discuss it with the prescribing doctor. I have the feeling that most don’t.”

Robert Sullivan, MD:

“Opiates, muscle relaxants, antidepressants, hypnotics (for sleep), anxiolytics, neurontin, anti-inflammatories, anti-migraine drugs, GI meds, prednisone (for asthma, arthritis).”

William Eidelman, MD:

“Opioids, sleeping pills, anxiolytics, SSRI anti-depressants.”

Hanya Barth, MD:

“Approximately 90% of my patients have at one time or another tried traditional medications for their symptoms and found that they produced significant side effects. With cannabis most patients report either being able to manage their symptoms without any other medications, or using less than they would ordinarily have to. It is not unusual to have patients come for a recommendation, bringing a whole bag of medications that they are taking. They might then return the following year saying that they no longer needed many of them and had cut back on many others.

“It is also true that most patients who were using alcohol to manage their symptoms or who were abusing alcohol or speed or opiates, etc. find that they can stop these drugs when they have marijuana. Many also report that they were using those drugs to manage certain symptoms such as pain or anxiety and then became addicted. This is especially true of certain populations, mainly the homeless and the mentally ill. Even cigarette smokers often state that they can substitute cannabis for nicotine.

“What amazes me overall is the efficacy and lack of side effects. It is not that the pain stops but that the mind doesn’t fixate on the pain in the same way. In addition, the muscles that become tense around an area of pain can cause secondary symptoms, which then are relieved with cannabis. If someone is in pain and/or anxious, he or she often has a hard time sleeping. With cannabis, patients report that they are able to sleep better, wake up more refreshed, have less secondary depression and are able to function more efficiently the following day. Many hypnotics can only be taken at a certain time (not at 4 a.m., for example). However, having a puff of cannabis at that time will help them fall back asleep without a morning hangover.”

Dr. A:

“Narcotics, including heavy narcotics such as Fentanyl.”

William Courtney, MD:

“While the percentage of patients in my practice using cannabis for management of ADHD is small, those who have discovered its benefits are pleased that they can achieve control without having to continue to use Ritalin, etc.”

Tod Mikuriya, MD:

“Opioids, sedatives, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, and SSRI
anti-depressants are commonly used in smaller amounts or
discontinued. These are all drugs with serious adverse effects.”

Jeffrey Hergenrather, MD:

“A cannabis specialist soon becomes aware of two remarkable facts. The range of conditions that patients are treating successfully with cannabis is extremely wide; and patients get relief with the use of cannabis that they cannot achieve with any other pharmaceuticals.

“The testimonies that I hear on a daily basis from people with
serious medical conditions are moving and illuminating. From many
people with cancer and AIDS come reports that cannabis has saved
their lives by giving them an appetite, the ability to keep down
their medications, and mental ease. “No other drug works like
cannabis to reduce or eliminate pain without significant adverse
effects. It evidently works on parts of the brain involving
short-term memory and pain centers, enabling the patient to stop
dwelling on pain. Cannabis helps with muscle relaxation, and it has an anti-inflammatory action. Patients with rheumatoid arthritis stabilize with fewer and less destructive flare-ups with the regular use of cannabis.

“Patients who suffer from migraines can reduce or omit conventional medications as their headaches become less frequent and less severe. “About half of the patients with mood disorders find that they are adequately treated with cannabis alone while others reduce their need for other pharmaceuticals. In my opinion, there is no better drug for the treatment of anxiety disorders, brain trauma and post-concussion syndrome, ADD and ADHD, obsessive compulsive disorder, and post-traumatic stress disorder.

“Patients with Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis are stabilized, usually with comfort and weight gain, while most are able to avoid use of steroids and other potent immunomodulator drugs.

“People who were formerly dependent on alcohol, opiates, amphetamines and other addictive drugs have had their lives changed when substituting with cannabis.

“Patients with end-stage renal disease on dialysis SEE ABOVE 1ST .

“Many patients with multiple sclerosis report that their condition has not worsened for many years while they have been using cannabis regularly. MS and other neurodegenerative diseases share the common benefits of reduced pain and muscle spasms, improved appetite, improved mood and fewer incontinence problems. Many patients with epilepsy are adequately treated with or without the use of other anticonvulsants.

“Patients with skin conditions associated with systemic disease such as psoriasis, lupus, dermatitis herpetiformis, and eczema all report easement and less itching when using cannabis regularly.

“Airway diseases such as asthma, sleep apnea, COPD, and chronic
sinusitis deserve special mention because I encourage the use of
cannabis vapor or ingested forms rather than smoking to reduce airway irritation.”

All these clinical reports jibe perfectly with lab studies showing that synthetic THC enables rodents to achieve pain relief with half the amount of opioids. (Under the rules of evidence established by corporate Science, rodents are considered more trustworthy witnesses than we, the people, are.)

To freedom, truth and deeper insights

Put simply, the synthetic drug makers stand to lose half their sales if and when the American people get legal access to cannabis.

Well, I have to admit that this is an argument for cannabis that I’ve never heard before. Interesting. I did a PubMed search for “dialysis and marijuana (and cannabis)” and didn’t find anything. There are also some interesting implications for folks who are uninsured and can’t afford prescription drugs…

I gotta say, though, that all of this would be more credible with a name attached, preferably of a registered member of this site—and if the observations were published in medical journals.

yes this stuff came from medical journals i belive all are Dr. from California is it just crazy how we really are not living in a free country one that would rather us be sick then well so many kickbacks from precripion drugs to Dr that use it to prescibe to there patients. all about money Bush should really try smoking some Bush or get some Bush

I looked on PubMed where you can usually find articles and abstracts from medical journals. The only doctors from this list who have published in any of the journals indexed by Pub Med are:
– Mikuriya (last published in 1988)
– O’Connell (last published in 1997)
– Eidelman (wrote a comment in 2002 to an article in West Journal of Medicine about medical marijuana)

There are 9304 articles on PubMed about cannabis. However, none of the other doctors had published any of them. Instead, it appears that the quotes were published online in November 2006 by Fred Gardner who wrote them after surveying 19 doctors who said they had monitored or approved 140,000 people’s use of marijuana for medical purposes.

http://www.counterpunch.org/gardner11112006.html (scroll past the request for money to support the website to Gardner’s article)

The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine of the National Institutes of Health (a federal agency) funded the University of Massachusetts Medical School (Worcester) in 2004 to a study the anti-inflammatory properties of cannabis constituents.

MARINOL is contraindicated in any patient who has a history of hypersensitivity to any cannabinoid or sesame oil. Warn patients not to drive, operate machinery, or engage in hazardous activity until they establish they can tolerate MARINOL and perform such tasks.

this is directlly from the Marinol site so if the fda “gov” says its ok to drive to do what ever fly a plane what ever! Most people would love it if it were just pot. There is a way in which you can inhale steam vaporized air stream that has no effects on the lung sits even digital it heats it to a specific temp. Marinol is not even real organic pot .

Donald I. Abrams, Hector P. Vizoso, Starley B. Shade, Cheryl Jay, Mary Ellen Kelly and Neal Benowitz
The University of California San Francisco, San Francisco, California 94110, USA
Presented at the September 9-10, 2005, International Association for Cannabis as Medicine 3rd Conference in Leiden, Holland.

INTRODUCTION: The Institute of Medicine report published in 1999 suggested that although marijuana may have potential therapeutic value, smoking was not a desirable delivery system for cannabis. A 6-day proof of concept pilot study was proposed to investigate vaporization using the Volcano device as an alternative means of delivery of inhaled Cannabis sativa, to characterize preliminary pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic effects and to determine whether it may be an appropriate system for use in clinical effectiveness studies.

METHODS: Eighteen healthy subjects were recruited and admitted to the inpatient ward of the General Clinical Research Center (GCRC) at San Francisco General Hospital to investigate the delivery of cannabinoids by vaporization of marijuana compared to marijuana smoked in a standard cigarette. One dose ( 1.7, 3.4 or 6.8% tetrahydrocannabinol) and delivery system (smoked marijuana cigarette or vaporization system) was randomly assigned for each of the six study days. The primary endpoint was the comparison of plasma concentrations of delta-9tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), cannabidiol, cannabinol, and metabolites, including 11-OH-THC resulting from inhalation of cannabis after vaporization vs smoking. Expired carbon monoxide was measured to evaluate whether the vaporizer reduces exposure to gaseous toxins as a secondary endpoint. We also evaluated physiologic and neuropsychologic effects and queried patients for their preference of blinded dose day and delivery method. Adverse events were collected.

RESULTS: 21 participants were enrolled to obtain the 18 who completed the 6-day inpatient study. 15 men and 3 women, mean age 30 years, were included in the final analysis. The plasma THC concentrations are still being determined at this time. Results will be available in September. 14 participants preferred vaporization, 2 smoking and 2 reported no preference. While still blinded with regard to dose, 8 participants selected the day they received 3.4% THC (7 vaporized, 1 smoked) as their most preferred treatment day; 4 selected the day they received 6.8% THC via vaporization and 6 had no treatment day preference. No adverse events were observed.

CONCLUSION: Vaporization of cannabis is a safe mode of delivery. The determination of plasma THC levels and comparison of clinical effects to smoked cannabis will provide information on the effectiveness of this delivery system. Participants had a clear preference for vaporization over smoking as a delivery system for the cannabis used in this trial.

Acknowledgements: The University of California Center for Medicinal Cannabis Research and NIH Grant 5-MO1-RR00083