Protest National Health Care

Discussions for Patients, Family, and Friends PD For Patients
#1

I am not sure that some of you are aware that the current government is trying to ram government health care down the throats of the voters. It is stated that a government system will compete with private insurance, this is bunch of foolishness. Eventually, the government system will crowd out the private market, reducing reimbursement rates, and physicians and nurses will leave the health care system, causing long lines and horrible health care.

Why would you pursue a career to be a physician or a specialized nurse, if you were unable to pay off a large student loan? How long do you want you and others to wait for a kidney transplant? Currently, Medicare is expensive because the goverment is paying 45 percent of all Medical claims in the United States. The way to reduce these costs is consumer choice.

In Sweden, the government decides what drugs you are able to purchase with your own private money, do we want that in the United States? The government knows more about our health care than we do??? Business will not be able to afford these tax increases and people are going to be laid off or fired, resulting less tax revenue to the government, along with high budget deficits.

In states where government health care has been tried, this system has been an object failure. In my state of Ohio, high taxes have result in businesses and corporations moving out of the state, If you are wondering, Ohio has the 3rd highest tax rate in the nation, behind California and New York, now, in a few years, Ohio will be facing huge budget deficits. Guess which programs are going to be cut, Medicaid, take a wild guess who will be hurt by these cuts? National health care will hurt the sick and the elderly, consumer choice health care equals compassion.

Mark

#2

Hello Mark,

I agree with you 100 %. I am very concerned for my husband, who is getting ready to start PD, as well as all kidney patients that they could be moved to the bottom of the list. When you have a kidney flair, you need care immediately, as waiting is not an option. I like our health insurance. We are fiscally responsible so we can afford it, and do not want to change it. My daughter wants to go to Medical school, but with nationalized health care on the horizon, I am trying to discourage her, or at least, point out what could be in store.

#3

My understanding of a national health insurance plan at this point is that it would NOT replace people’s employer health plans if they like them. Rather, it would become a giant pool for folks who don’t otherwise have insurance. For example, the Medical Education Institute, which runs this site, is a small non-profit. We have just 6 staff. In Wisconsin, where we’re located, we are not permitted to join any sort of larger group, so we pay REALLY high premiums for our folks who take our health insurance benefit. Being able to join a giant pool would bring costs down for folks like us–and allow people who don’t have any other options to get care.

The doctor I heard this morning as a guest on National Public Radio said patients and doctors would both do BETTER with a single payer plan (what is being proposed is not such a plan), and only insurance companies would be disrupted. Don’t panic!

#4

[QUOTE=Dori Schatell;17895]My understanding of a national health insurance plan at this point is that it would NOT replace people’s employer health plans if they like them. Rather, it would become a giant pool for folks who don’t otherwise have insurance. For example, the Medical Education Institute, which runs this site, is a small non-profit. We have just 6 staff. In Wisconsin, where we’re located, we are not permitted to join any sort of larger group, so we pay REALLY high premiums for our folks who take our health insurance benefit. Being able to join a giant pool would bring costs down for folks like us–and allow people who don’t have any other options to get care.

The doctor I heard this morning as a guest on National Public Radio said patients and doctors would both do BETTER with a single payer plan (what is being proposed is not such a plan), and only insurance companies would be disrupted. Don’t panic![/QUOTE]

Quickly, the way to reduce costs for your group is to allow your group to purchase health insurance across state lines, inducing competition. Competition and consumers will restrain and control costs as they do in every sector in our economy. Government reduces costs by force, private companies must reduce costs by cooperation or financial incentives. Health insurance is unaffordable because of government regulation and thousands of state government mandates to cover hundreds, if not thousands of medical issues. This buys votes, but makes health insurance unaffordable for the vast majority of American citizens. We buy products from companies from across state lines, each and every day. Can you imagine not being able to buy a car in another state?

I am curious, why do Canada, Great Britain, Sweden and other Western European countries have a shortage of medical personnel, if they are enjoying major financial benefits?

Mark

#5

We have a shortage, too, Mark, in certain specialty areas. That’s why it takes so long to get a dermatologist visit–in ANY U.S. system. Whenever my husband and I have needed one, it’s taken months, and his health plan is for State of WI employees–a pretty Cadillac level plan. Medical schools only train a handful of certain specialties. For some reason, this seems to include nephrogists, who are retiring faster than they can be replaced.

Overall, though, I’m so appalled that anyone would think that the status quo (with or without “competition” that can cross state lines) is better than a national plan would be that I don’t even know where to start. IMHO, insurance companies have NO BUSINESS in healthcare. It’s the wrong model. You and I have gotten into it before and I don’t see a lot of point to doing it again. We just completely disagree about this topic.

#6

[QUOTE=Dori Schatell;17902]We have a shortage, too, Mark, in certain specialty areas. That’s why it takes so long to get a dermatologist visit–in ANY U.S. system. Whenever my husband and I have needed one, it’s taken months, and his health plan is for State of WI employees–a pretty Cadillac level plan. Medical schools only train a handful of certain specialties. For some reason, this seems to include nephrogists, who are retiring faster than they can be replaced.

Overall, though, I’m so appalled that anyone would think that the status quo (with or without “competition” that can cross state lines) is better than a national plan would be that I don’t even know where to start. IMHO, insurance companies have NO BUSINESS in healthcare. It’s the wrong model. You and I have gotten into it before and I don’t see a lot of point to doing it again. We just completely disagree about this topic.[/QUOTE]

It also took months for me to see a dematologist, wall to wall acne on my back, taking Accutane, nuclear bomb for acne, 85%-90% of acne is finally gone. Would you be opposed to non-profit health co-ops? I know that you believe that I am a fan of the health insurance companies. I have worked for non-profit companies. However, at the end of the day, the non-profit corporation or company must make a profit. My point with competition, is that we can force the medical profession to be attentive to our needs. A national plan would mean rationing and a shortage of medical professionals. 50 percent of physicians will not take Medicare patients because of low reimbursement rates.

If insurance companies were not in the health care field, how would the average individuals pay for long hospital stays? Where would the money come to invest in new medical technology? As I have stated before, costs do not go away. Insurance does not belong in health care, that is a subjective judgement. Health insurance was started in WWII because of the wage and cost controls by F.D.R. . Companies started giving health insurance to employees because under law, they were unable give employees wage increases. Government intervention leads to excessive costs, look at the Davis-Bacon Act.

I believe that medical decisions should between the patient and the physican. Competition in the medical field will reduce costs to a reasonable level, along with choice and reasonable deductibles. Safeway’s insurance plan has numerous choices and premums, premiums and costs are based on behavior, the choices and premiums are voluntary. Safeway has not seen costs rise in their plan for four years. I believe in patients and physicians making medical decisions, not government bureaucrats.

Mark

#7

[QUOTE=NDXUFan12;17899]I am curious, why do Canada, Great Britain, Sweden and other Western European countries have a shortage of medical personnel, if they are enjoying major financial benefits?

Mark[/QUOTE]

Probably because the medical industry is not making as much … but the people in need of the care are enjoying it because they don’t go in debt due to their health. However the wait times are getting longer and longer but I am told the wait times are long in the US as well. I do not know. I am in Canada.

#8

How would you enjoy waiting months or years for an operation? Have been told from people in Canada that you do not have your own physician. In fact, a Canadian Registered Nurse told me that her father, who had cancer, waited over a year to find a physician. If you had a consumer choice medical system, the insurance coverage after the deductible is extensive. I had to wait two months to see a dermatologist, that would have been unheard of in the 70’s and 80’s.

Mark

#9

You might want to read the facts to dispel the myths you’ve heard in the media presented by groups that may have their own agendas for preventing any changes in the U.S. healthcare system.
http://www.factcheck.org/politics/more_health_care_scare.html

Article in the Denver Post by a Canadian psychologist that dispels many of the myths about Canada’s healthcare system:

Whenever I see ads on TV that discuss healthcare reform, if I can’t recognize who is supporting the ad, I look the organization up on the Internet and try to follow the money.

#10

Beth thank you for the links!

[QUOTE=NDXUFan12;17912]How would you enjoy waiting months or years for an operation? Have been told from people in Canada that you do not have your own physician. In fact, a Canadian Registered Nurse told me that her father, who had cancer, waited over a year to find a physician. If you had a consumer choice medical system, the insurance coverage after the deductible is extensive. I had to wait two months to see a dermatologist, that would have been unheard of in the 70’s and 80’s.

Mark[/QUOTE]

Umm… I have never waited months. And when I was on dialysis I got put before people in the ER because I had problems that were deemed needed urgent attention. I wait now that I am no longer on dialysis and the wait depending can be up to 15 hrs in the ER.

I think too long but not as long as I have heard people say online who are not in Canada about Canada.

I can only speak for my area and am not trying to defend but am curious to know more. I only know what things are here as this is all I know but since I am engaged to an American I have a deeper interest than most Canadians. I wish to know the American system and why Americans want to pay so much for privatized health care. I know I must not be seeing the whole picture. So I ask for it to be painted for me. My fiance was looking up how we can get coverage and he said it would be $400 a month! Are you kidding me? I thought paying $2 co-pay for my meds was a lot … guess I am spoiled in Canada …

Of course in Canada I would never get accepted for privatized health care where in the USA I heard it is easier … a lot easier. I realize there are pros and cons on both sides of the border.

As for own physician, I can understand that. It seems to be getting hard and harder to find a good one. But there are at least 10 in my city right now taking new patients. But I am not happy with my current one who my last family doctor’s office set me up with because that doctor died in a fire. So I tried looking for one on my own and now see how hard it is to find one. Still every doctor is covered so I can go to who ever I want but can only have one family doc. I have 3 Nephrologists locally but one is mine and the 2 others know me as they would take turns in rounds when I was on hemo dialysis. But at my transplant hospital (my city does not have one) I have a few there as well and their residents. I have so many medical staff around me that I can’t see things from the point of view of someone who has been healthy and not seeing a doctor for years and then needs to find one. So I know my point of view isn’t the best when it comes to the ease of finding a doctor. Still I have never waited very long for surgery. BUT! I will say I did wait a full year to see a dermatologist in my city as he was a specialist dealing with dialysis patient skin issues I guess… and by the time the appointment came around I had gotten sick again and ended up in the hospital so I missed that appointment. Needless to say I did not reschedule because by that the skin issue I had (hair loss) I had already figured out the cause on my own. I was malnourished from bad Peritonitis that made me drop from size 14 to size 3 in one month (140lbs down to 113lbs).

Anyway, didn’t mean to go on. Just saying how things are here. I also know it is different Province to Province in Canada. For example, my Province medicans are not covered but my disability is covering them and they say I will be covered for life.

#11

The U.S. spends more than any other country on healthcare and has some of the worst outcomes in the world. IMHO, it would be hard to do worse. Insurance companies and their lobbies drive our process for healthcare, which hasn’t served anyone well except themselves and those who take their money. As Beth says, follow the money. Who stands to gain from “competition”? Insurance companies. Who stands to gain from keeping the status quo? Insurance companies.

Healthcare is NOT a consumer area that benefits from “competition” or “consumer demand.” People who are sick want care and a relationship with their care provider. Just by way of example, I took my very sick cat to the vet once. They gave me a menu of “Cadillac” care and “Volkswagon” care. We could choose to pay for tests A, B, C, D, and E, or just do A and C, for example. The problem is, we’re not veterinarians. We’re not qualified to make those decisions to get the best outcomes. I ended up taking my cat to another vet–and she didn’t end up surviving her illness. This was all extremely stressful and costly–and it was for a pet, not a person. Most of us are NOT doctors. Even if we are doctors, we can’t know every area of medicine. “Competition” and “Consumer Demand” are not a workable model for healthcare. It isn’t a commodity like groceries or clothing.

Another analogy is the notion of privatizing our Social Security accounts. Unless we all become investment bankers, we are unequipped to make these types of decisions (and we’ve all seen how it went even when people who ARE investment bankers try…).

Don’t buy the propaganda. We need radical change to improve U.S. healthcare–and nothing that is currently on the table will get us anywhere near that. All of the suggestions being made now are incremental. Getting rid of insurance companies would be the best thing we could possibly do. They suck dollars out of the system without providing care. The issue is not the “numbers of Americans who are uninsured”–it’s the number who don’t have access to healthcare. Not insurance, care.

#12

[QUOTE=Dori Schatell;17922]The U.S. spends more than any other country on healthcare and has some of the worst outcomes in the world. IMHO, it would be hard to do worse. Insurance companies and their lobbies drive our process for healthcare, which hasn’t served anyone well except themselves and those who take their money. As Beth says, follow the money. Who stands to gain from “competition”? Insurance companies. Who stands to gain from keeping the status quo? Insurance companies.

Healthcare is NOT a consumer area that benefits from “competition” or “consumer demand.” People who are sick want care and a relationship with their care provider. Just by way of example, I took my very sick cat to the vet once. They gave me a menu of “Cadillac” care and “Volkswagon” care. We could choose to pay for tests A, B, C, D, and E, or just do A and C, for example. The problem is, we’re not veterinarians. We’re not qualified to make those decisions to get the best outcomes. I ended up taking my cat to another vet–and she didn’t end up surviving her illness. This was all extremely stressful and costly–and it was for a pet, not a person. Most of us are NOT doctors. Even if we are doctors, we can’t know every area of medicine. “Competition” and “Consumer Demand” are not a workable model for healthcare. It isn’t a commodity like groceries or clothing.

Another analogy is the notion of privatizing our Social Security accounts. Unless we all become investment bankers, we are unequipped to make these types of decisions (and we’ve all seen how it went even when people who ARE investment bankers try…).

Don’t buy the propaganda. We need radical change to improve U.S. healthcare–and nothing that is currently on the table will get us anywhere near that. All of the suggestions being made now are incremental. Getting rid of insurance companies would be the best thing we could possibly do. They suck dollars out of the system without providing care. The issue is not the “numbers of Americans who are uninsured”–it’s the number who don’t have access to healthcare. Not insurance, care.[/QUOTE]

While we agree that the United States has many of worst outcomes in medicine for dollars spent, such as mammograms and cholesterol medicine, that is where the agreement will end. First, it is up to the individual making the claim about National Health Care to prove that it is valid. Second, I spend many hours on the machine and otherwise, searching these claims. I would agree that we need radical change in the health care system. However, the way to have radical change is consumer choice, liberty, and freedom.

How much do you know about automobiles, why would you take your car to a mechanic, who has forgotten more about cars, than you or I will ever know? In the laws of economics, competition restrains, it does not increase prices. Let us say that I am a greedy auto executive and I want to vastly increase my prices to make great profits. If I greatly increase my market prices above what the market will bear, my competitors will put me out of business, by undercutting my high prices.

Medicine is expensive because it lacks competiton. High prices occur when there is a monopoly of service. The laws of economics do not change in Medicine, Food, Cars, transplants, real estate or any other field of human endeavor. If you pay $0.00 for a house or car, how much of a car or house do you think you will receive for the price of zero?

I agree, follow the money. This is why physicians are using certain medical devices or using certain medications, because they are being paid thousands of dollars per year by the drug companies. My girlfriend is a high-risk surgery R.N. . She said that surgeons are being paid thousands of dollars per year to use certain medical devices or proscribe certain medications. I have heard this time and again from various individuals in the medical profession.

When ALGore made his claims about private Social Security, as with science, he has no clue what he is talking about, as the norm.

Chile’s Social Security Lesson For The U.S.
by José Piñera

José Piñera is Chile’s former secretary of labor and social security and is co-chairman of the Cato Institute’s Project on Social Security Privatization.

Added to cato.org on December 17, 1997

America’s Social Security system will go bust in 2010. As political leaders scramble to save it, they’ve overlooked an obvious free-market solution that works. They need only look at Chile.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=5981

#13

Mark, apparently you’ve never been ripped off by an unscrupulous mechanic. (I have). And apparently you missed the part where unregulated financial “competition” led to a global financial meltdown. And the part where–even if health insurance plans were allowed to compete between states, they STILL would not want to cover people on dialysis.

#14

Having worked as a police officer, I am not a very trusting individual. I do not trust mechanics and automobile shops. I have had mechanics try to rip me off, many times, that strategy did not work for them. I would like to know why all of these services are available for dogs, not people, for a reasonable price, without a government option. This list is short list of what is offered by the hospital.

http://www.parkeastanimalhospital.com/Advantage.html

Appointments 7 days a week with evening
appointments Monday through Friday

Nursing care 365 days a year, with technicians continuously on duty

Around-the-clock / 24 hour emergency service

Calls responded to immediately by staff,
not answering services or machines

House calls and supportive home
nursing assistance

Affordable preventive medicine and client
education on topical issues

Top grade, board-certified medical and surgical specialists available for consultations

Special discounts and free first examination for rescued strays and newly adopted pets from shelters

Pick-up and delivery of pets available

#15

George Mason Professor of Economics Walter Williams, Former Chair of the Department:

Professor George Reisman has written a very insightful article on his blog titled “The Myth that Laissez Faire Is Responsible for Our Financial Crisis.” (http://georgereisman.com/blog/2008/10/myth-that-laissez-faire-is-responsible.html) You can decide whether we have in an unregulated laissez-faire economy. There are 15 cabinet departments, nine of which control various aspects of the U.S. economy. They are the Departments of: Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, Health and Human Services, Education, Energy, Labor, Agriculture, Commerce, and Interior. In addition, there is the alphabet soup cluster of federal agencies such as: the IRS, the FRB and FDIC, the EPA, FDA, SEC, CFTC, NLRB, FTC, FCC, FERC, FEMA, FAA, CAA, INS, OHSA, CPSC, NHTSA, EEOC, BATF, DEA, NIH, and NASA.

http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/articles/08/CapitalismAndTheFinancialCrisis.htm

University of Chicago Nobel Prize Economics Gary Becker:

Reform of Social Security
http://home.uchicago.edu/~gbecker/02_15_05_WSJ.pdf

Not Heading For A Depression
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122333679431409639.html