I know this has come up in past posts, but how many of you out there are using a Battery Backup System connected to your NxStage Machine? I know a Generator would be the best option, but what brand/Size/Type of UPC can be used with NxStage? Also, how long does it last if a power outages did occur?
I remember approx 2 years ago when I was training for NxStage and I brought this question up with a NxStage Rep who was onsite and she had never heard of a UPS. She was going to look into this, but in the stress of being trained on a new machine, this was overlooked and never did receive an answer.
Would a UPS be safe to hook up to a NxStage Machine? If you are currently using one, any info on how you have it setup would be appreciated. For those of you who do use one, did it function correctly if you had an electrical outage? Did it affect the NxStage machine in any way? Any disruption in treatment when it kicked on?
Howdy, although I am no expert by any means, a little online research yielded this. Due to the power requirements of the nxstage cycler, which is around 700 watts for the length of time required, 3 to 4 hours ( and warmer too ) the price from most UPS companies would be in the several hundred dollar range. Some are above the $1000 mark. Generally speaking UPS systems are used to either power the computer(s) until they can can be safely shut down OR until a back up generator can be brought online, which can take a minute or two in some cases. There is another alternative, and that is a battery/inverter system used by folks who “live off the grid”. In other words they use their own power system instead of hooking up to the local electric company. In this case for the Nxstage cycler one scenario would be this: A pair of 12 volt deep cycle batteries, similar to those used in automobiles would be wired to an inverter/power manager/charger device that is of sufficient capacity to handle the load of the cycler(and perhaps an emergency light) The inverter device would convert the power from the batteries to the proper voltage for the cycler as well as make it palatable for the cycler as well as keep the batteries properly charged for instant use. Ther are a number of companies around the US and world that provide this kind of technology. In my research, I found that a system like this can be purchased in the US for between $200-$300 dollars. I can post webistes if anyone is interested.
I know that I could definitely use a UPS of some sort. In my region of GA, I have had no less than 5 power outtages this summer. This last storm, the lightning looked as if it was right outside my windows. Several of my appliances got zapped and I had to replace a couple of electrical outlets. Thank goodness the cycler/pureflow didn’t get knocked out too.
pabblo I’m interested in your setup or the one you’re thinking of using. In a scenario of intermittent power outages a battery inverter setup would be optimal. I’d suggest deep cycle marine batteries. The Uninterruptable Power Source option would just give you a bridge over brief outages, rinse back by ending treatment early or as you say keep you going until a generator kicks on.
The issue with generators is fuel. I’m thinking of propane powered generators just because propane is easier to store. I’m trying to decide which route to go right now - I want something in place by September 1. I’ll share with thread what I get, my budget is $5-600. (mom asked if I wanted a new flat panel TV for my birthday - I said I’d rather have back up power. I’m getting old).
The best thing would be to be able to replace what you use through solar or wind. That would be a good back up system.
Hello all, my wife is training on the NxStage, I have exactly the same question about UPS. The 700 watts is helpful. That seems a bit high to me.
I would advise against deep cycle batteries and an inverter for 2 reasons. First, the batteries contain acid and must be stored properly. Second, during the recharging phase they generate hydrogen, which must be properly vented to avoid fires/explosions. Normally deep cycle batteries are used for off-grid application where they are contained in a case which has an external vent. They are also used for purely electric vehicles.
I would advise that someone measure the power draw from the NxStage machine directly. You can get the Kill a Watt power meter for about $20-30:
As for UPS, I have installed several in our home for computer, home theater, and satellite applications. You can get a good UPS that uses NiCd batteries for $200-300 that should be capable of doing the job.
From my previous post, I would suggest that you only size the UPS to cover a fraction of the time on dialysis. You probably wouldn’t start dialysis if the power were out. What you want is the UPS to cover the brief periods when power goes down and to cover you towards the end of dialysis.
I would say you want a UPS sized for between 30 minutes and 1 hour. That should cut down substantially on the size and cost of the UPS unit. That is enough to finish off a full course of treatment if you are near the end when the power goes off, and enough to finish at least some treatment if the power goes off early.
However, you are looking at a pretty large UPS, not the little power strip sized units you see plugged into computers or other devices that don’t draw much power. A unit sized for a full 2-hour treatment would probably run $1000 or more.
Thanks for this very useful info, Unregistered–and I hope you know that you’re very welcome to register (you’ll get email notifications when someone replies to your posts). We’d be happy to have you join us.
The cycler and PF together have a load of 600VA. There UPS Selectors from various manufacturers that allow you to plug in the load factor and time you want and it will recommend the appropriate UPS.
How about eBay? I often find that electronics of various sorts are cheaper there than at brick & mortar stores. (Look for 100% positive feedback before you buy from someone…)
Thanks Rich - that really helps. I have 2 recommendations for systems:
APC Back-UPS RS 1500VA
or:
APC Smart-UPS 1400VA
Both units are available refurbished for around $200. Some refurbishers put higher capacity (22 ah vs. 18 ah) batteries making them even higher capacities. These units should give you at least 30 minutes of backup time.
I’ve bought both new and refurbished UPS. The only problem I’ve ever had with one was on a brand new Belkin UPS unit, make sure you understand the return policy. UPS’s are quite heavy and can can be expensive to ship back. Most refurbishers have a no-hassle return policy.
In answer to the original question about Nxstage and some sort of battery back-up system, I suggested a system of deep cycle batteries and an inverter /charger/power manager. I was thinking worst case scenario for me and went looking for a solution. As far as a system that will only provide a partial dialysis treatment, for me that is unacceptable. If my system only provides for a partial treatment in the midst of a general local emergency (power outage that lasts for days,ect) the investment I make will to me will not be worth it. However if I have a system that is self sustaining, including a solar charger that allowes me to dialyse as I normally would, that is a best case scenario for me. Yes the deep cycle batteries do require special handling ect. This might be the right choice for me, I live in a house not an apartment, but might not be the answer for others. If the power goes out 1 hour into a 3 hour treatment and stays out for a couple of days, it becomes for some a real big issue. Does the patient go to a center? Will the center have a time slot available? Will the center have power problems as well? Will the patient be able to get to the center? What about the next day if the power is still out? In regards to the actual power a device uses, wouldn’t it be wise to size the back up system a little larger for that extra margin of safety? What about an emergency light that will last the duration? Most battery powered emergency lighting is designed to last only a few minutes. Thank you.
I was thinking worst case scenarios too. There is an appeal to propane powered generators - they are as transportable as the System One and propane is easier to store compared to diesel or gas. Hereis one but once you pay for shipping it’s nearly $900. Then on top of that you have the fuel. For that price you could set yourself up with a UPS and an inverter/battery set up. I too am in a house which does open up options.
My Mom is sheltering at my sister in law’s house, right now Friday 8/24. She’s in suburban Chicago and is without power, it’s expected to be off for days. Rich B is in the same area - Rich? - I’m guessing a generator would be much appreciated by home dialyzors north of Chicago today and a UPS would have been appreciated if one had been dialyzing when the storm unexpectedly hit yesterday afternoon.
[QUOTE=Bill Peckham;14317]My Mom is sheltering at my sister in law’s house, right now Friday 8/24. She’s in suburban Chicago and is without power, it’s expected to be off for days. Rich B is in the same area - Rich? - I’m guessing a generator would be much appreciated by home dialyzors north of Chicago today and a UPS would have been appreciated if one had been dialyzing when the storm unexpectedly hit yesterday afternoon.
Rich you there? You alright?[/QUOTE]
Ten-four, buddy! I’ve always been a trouper and seem to always weather the storm. Even though an Elm in front of our house uprooted (didn’t split at a large intersection of branches, but literally uprooted), I’m as steady and sturdy as ever. We did have the PF lose power several time and we had to drain the remaining dialysate. I waited til the storm passed before starting dialysis using the last of my emergency supply of bags (Good old NxStage had six boxes delivered this afternoon from its local inventory in Chicago – one of the benefits of living in an area with a good number of users).
As to Pabblo concern about a backup for a couple of days, what kind of outage are you expecting. Yes, they do occur at time, but what are the odds? I guess where I live, a couple of hours would normally be the longest – the rest are the exception.
I think the thing to do is talk to your clinic about emergency preparation and contingencies. I think looking at a solution for that long of a period at this time is a bit ridiculous. But then again, I’m the kind of guy that goes with the flow. I’m sure I would find a solution if I needed it. Perhaps because I live in a large urban area, there would be agencies that have an emergency supply of generators to use. But other than a calamity like Katrina, or the current flooding in the Midwest (which I feel would never happen in Chicago) and which any kind of backup really wouldn’t do any good because you’d have to evacuate, I don’t really know where this discussion is going to go.
As for lighting, Pabblo, just connect a lamp to your backup source.
My Mom is saying she’ll be without power through the weekend so if you lived a few miles closer to the lake you’d be asking about those community generators. You won the zip code roulette this time. What about next time? If there is a widespread outage (the system wide blackout back east not too long ago hit large urban areas by the score) home dialyzors will not be the highest priority. I would not want to depend on the availability of a generator after the fact.
I think the more one looks into the state of our public infrastructure the more worried one becomes. The grid is always there … except when it isn’t.
Glad you made it through unscathed. Why didn’t your UPS handle the situation? Remember the last step to planning is testing.
He who has large TV sitting on top of precarious shelf should not throw stones.
However, you’re correct about the testing; I must have been to lazy. Sorry your Mom is w/o power. How much of Wilmette was affected. It probably gave your brother the night off from the restaurant.
The real question about outages in the area is whether Sarkis’s was affected. Even so, I’m sure they would be back in business for our next breakfast together.
On the issue of preparedness for me I would much rather be prepared than have to look for someone else to come to my rescue. Besides that is one of the reasons why we dialyse at home isn’t it? To be more self dependent? It is hard to find a replacement to knowing what to do, how to do it , and having the tools to accomplish what needs done.
There might be an easier way to get a genset that runs on propane check this out:
The spud type looks exactly like the device one would mount between the carb and manifold on a car motor only smaller. I have driven many miles in a car so equipped.
[quote=pabblo;14326]On the issue of preparedness for me I would much rather be prepared than have to look for someone else to come to my rescue. Besides that is one of the reasons why we dialyse at home isn’t it? To be more self dependent? It is hard to find a replacement to knowing what to do, how to do it , and having the tools to accomplish what needs done.
There might be an easier way to get a genset that runs on propane check this out:
The spud type looks exactly like the device one would mount between the carb and manifold on a car motor only smaller. I have driven many miles in a car so equipped.[/quote]
[quote=Bill Peckham;14317]I was thinking worst case scenarios too. There is an appeal to propane powered generators - they are as transportable as the System One and propane is easier to store compared to diesel or gas. Hereis one but once you pay for shipping it’s nearly $900. Then on top of that you have the fuel. For that price you could set yourself up with a UPS and an inverter/battery set up. I too am in a house which does open up options.
Oh geez, that’s quite expensive…well, for a rich boy you know. The majority of us will just pass that and just deal with alternatives. I don’t know about Propane, my brother in-law had a propane powered truck and after a good while he yanked out the propane tank and went gas powered…I told why? He said that propane is not widely available like gas is and many times when he tried getting it they didn’t have any…by the time you need it its all gone! I told him whether he saved any money using it and he said…5 cents…If I had the extra cash, heck ya…would get one…
My Mom is sheltering at my sister in law’s house, right now Friday 8/24. She’s in suburban Chicago and is without power, it’s expected to be off for days. Rich B is in the same area - Rich? - I’m guessing a generator would be much appreciated by home dialyzors north of Chicago today and a UPS would have been appreciated if one had been dialyzing when the storm unexpectedly hit yesterday afternoon.
